Legislature(2023 - 2024)GRUENBERG 120
02/10/2023 01:30 PM House JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR3 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HJR 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
February 10, 2023
1:31 p.m.
DRAFT
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Sarah Vance, Chair
Representative Ben Carpenter
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative David Eastman
Representative Andrew Gray
Representative Cliff Groh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jamie Allard, Vice Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3
Encouraging Congress to pass the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act
or a similar bill.
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 3
SHORT TITLE: CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAUSCHER
02/01/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/01/23 (H) JUD, STA
02/10/23 (H) JUD AT 1:30 PM GRUENBERG 120
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced HJR 3, as the prime sponsor.
AOIBHEANN CLINE, Northwest Regional Director
National Rifle Association
Fairfax, Virginia
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided invited testimony during the
hearing on HJR 3.
RYAN MCKEE, Staff
Representative George Rauscher
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
HJR 3, on behalf of Representative Rauscher, prime sponsor.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:31:24 PM
CHAIR SARAH VANCE called the House Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting to order at 1:31 p.m. Representatives C. Johnson, Gray,
Groh, and Vance were present at the call to order.
Representatives Eastman and Carpenter arrived as the meeting was
in progress.
HJR 3-CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES
1:31:58 PM
CHAIR VANCE announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3, "Encouraging Congress to pass the
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act or a similar bill."
1:32:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER, Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor, introduced HJ 3. He paraphrased the sponsor statement
[included in the committee packet], which read as follows
[original punctuation provided]:
House Joint Resolution 3 would encourage Congress to
amend the federal criminal code to allow an individual
who is qualified to carry or possess a concealed
handgun in one state to be allowed to also carry or
possess a concealed handgun in another state that also
allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.
This Resolution would also request that Congress enact
the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 38) from the
117th Congress, or a similar bill.
1:35:53 PM
AOIBHEANN CLINE, Northwest Regional Director, National Rifle
Association (NRA), stated her support for HJR 3. She conveyed
that Congress introduced H.R. 38, the Concealed Carry
Reciprocity Act, on January 9, 2023. H.R. 38 would allow law
abiding Americans who were eligible to carry a concealed handgun
under state law to do so in all other U.S. states and
territories that recognize the rights of their own residents to
carry concealed. She reported that 42 states and the District
of Columbia [Washington, D.C.], broadly recognized the right to
carry, or apply to carry, a concealed handgun for self-defense.
She remarked, "The remaining eight states, however, have laws
that allow even the most qualified applicants to be denied a
license unless they can show an extraordinary reason for having
one. This results in an arbitrary and unconstitutional system
where people are denied the right to carry, not because they are
a public safety risk, but because licensing officials simply
don't believe ordinary people should have that right." She
stated that H.R. 38 would ensure that no "upstanding" American
would be denied an effective means of self defense while
traveling from state to state. She explained that under H.R.
38, states would remain in complete control of the standards by
which concealed carry licenses were issued. Further, property
owners both public and private would maintain discretion
over carrying firearms on their own premises. She indicated
that effectually, the congressional bill would stop state from
arresting and prosecuting travelers for crossing into their
territory with an otherwise lawfully and concealed handgun. She
emphasized that any criminal behavior committed with that
firearm would still be subject to the full force of the law.
She concluded by declaring that passage of HJR 3 would provide
Congress and Alaska's federal delegation with a unified voice in
support of the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act.
1:38:34 PM
CHAIR VANCE invited questions from members of the committee.
1:39:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked how H.R. 38 would impact Alaskans
should it become law.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said it would have no impact, as
Alaskans would still be allowed to carry a concealed weapon per
existing state law. He deferred to Ms. Cline.
MS. CLINE indicated that HJR 3 would encourage Congress to pass
H.R. 38, a congressional bill that would allow concealed
reciprocity across all 50 states. She explained that if H.R. 38
were to pass, Alaskans would be allowed to travel into other
states without fear or prosecution or violating the law from one
boarder to another.
1:41:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked how many Alaskans had been issued a
valid concealed carry permit by the Department of Public Safety
(DPS).
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER deferred to Ms. Cline.
MS. CLINE said she did not know the answer. She shared her
understanding that Alaska did not require a permit to carry a
concealed firearm within the state.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether [H.R. 38] would allow Alaskans
to carry concealed weapons without a permit in states that
required concealed carry permits.
MS. CLINE stated that each state would maintain control over the
standards by which they issued permits.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY restated his question, asking whether [H.R.
38] would allow Alaskans to carry concealed weapons without a
permit in states that required concealed carry permits.
MS. CLINE offered to follow up with the requested information.
1:44:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN sought to confirm that H.R. 38 would
abolish the right for the State of Alaska to arrest and
prosecute an individual traveling from another state for
carrying a firearm in violation of state laws.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER deferred to Ms. Cline.
MS. CLINE asked Representative Eastman to clarify the question.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN remarked, "If this law were to become
federal law, would that then prevent us in Alaska from later
instituting the same types of requirements that you referenced
in New Jersey?"
MS. CLINE said she did not understand the question.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether Alaska's "hands would be
tied" if H.R. 38 were to pass.
MS. CLINE answered no.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN inquired about the purpose of the
congressional bill if it made no changes to existing state laws.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said the purpose of H.R. 38 was to allow
individuals with concealed carry permits to travel to or through
another state without being arrested.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether the bill would prevent New
Jersey from maintaining its existing restrictions and prevent
Alaska from imposing similar restrictions in the future.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said, to his knowledge, that would be
true.
1:47:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY referenced a message on the Division of
Statewide Services, [DPS], website, which read, "All states do
not have the same laws. All states do not reciprocate with
Alaska. The Alaska concealed handgun permit holder is
responsible for understanding the laws and regulations of each
state to which they will travel." He shared his belief that
carriers of concealed firearms were responsible for
understanding the laws governing those practices.
1:49:03 PM
CHAIR VANCE sought to confirm that H.R. 38 would provide the
flexibility for those carrying concealed [weapons] to move from
state to state freely.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER confirmed.
CHAIR VANCE sought to confirm that HJR 3 represented the
legislature's affirmation of H.R. 38.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said, "That's correct." He referred
committee members to the document titled, "HJR 3 Supporting
Documents BILLS-117hr38ih" [included in the committee packet].
He clarified that the bill would allow permitted individuals to
freely travel to and through states with different laws.
1:50:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER pointed out that in Alaska, a concealed
carry permit was not required to carry a handgun. He shared his
understanding that H.R. 38 would not allow Alaskans to carry a
handgun in a state that required a permit. He asked whether
that was accurate.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said that was his understanding.
CHAIR VANCE explained that the committee was seeking
clarification on whether all Alaskans - who followed permitless
concealed carry laws within the state would be granted
reciprocity across states if H.R. 38 were to pass.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said he did not know the answer. He
shared his understanding that the bill specifically referenced
permits, indicating that Alaska may need change its policies to
be granted reciprocity in other states.
1:52:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY shared his understanding that HJR 3 was
encouraging the federal government to take control of Second
Amendment rights. He inferred that the resolution sponsor
wanted the federal government "to tell states what they can or
cannot do with regards to the Second Amendment," as opposed to
states making those decisions on their own. He asked whether
that was an accurate summation.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER acknowledged that determining
constitutional rights was the crux of the issue; however, he
clarified that [H.R. 38] was not mandating states to implement a
permitting requirement to conceal carry, nor would it override a
state's decision not to implement such a law. He opined that
the congressional bill needed to be vetted to provide a clear
answer on the right to carry concealed.
1:55:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether [H.R. 38] would apply to
open carry restrictions as well.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER shared his understanding that the
congressional bill only pertained to concealed carry laws.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN cited restrictions that had been
implemented in the city of Oakland, California regarding the
possession of a firearm. He asked whether the reciprocity
outlined in H.R. 38 would extend to similar restrictions in
other states.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER remarked, "You're not moving to New York
or California, you're traveling through. You have to be in that
state that day. I think there's a difference on what you're
saying."
1:56:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY considered a scenario in which an 18-year-
old obtained a concealed carry permit in another state. He
asked whether that 18-year-old could return to Alaska and carry
concealed if H.R. 38 were to pass.
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN shared his understanding that 18-year-
olds were not legally allowed to purchase a firearm in Alaska;
however, that would not prevent them from carrying one. He
deferred to Ms. Cline.
MS. CLINE explained that H.R. 38 would not allow an 18-year-old
Alaskan resident to travel to another state and obtain a
concealed carry permit. She reiterated that the bill would stop
states from arresting and prosecuting out-of-state travelers who
obtained a valid concealed carry permit from their issuing
state.
CHAIR VANCE concluded that H.R. 38 would allow concealed carry
permits to be recognized from one state to another. She asked
how that reciprocity was realized under existing laws.
MS. CLINE indicated that Alaska offered a permitting option but
was predominantly a permitless carry state. She reported that
42 states and Washington D.C. recognized the right to carry
concealed with a permit. She reiterated that the remaining 8
states required an "extraordinary" reason to obtain a permit.
She emphasized that H.R. 38 would not change state laws. It
would, however, allow concealed carry permit holders to travel
freely across the remainder of the U.S. without fear of
prosecution. She emphasized that each state would retain their
ability to enact laws and requirements pertaining to concealed
carry permits.
2:00:12 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY considered a scenario in which it was legal
for a 14-year-old to obtain a concealed carry permit in another
state. He sought to confirm that if that 14-year-old traveled
to Alaska, he/she would be allowed to carry concealed.
MS. CLINE clarified that a concealed carry permit could not be
legally obtained by a 14-year-old in any U.S. state. She
further noted that individuals must be at least 21 years of age
to buy a handgun under federal law.
CHAIR VANCE asked whether concealed carry permitting laws varied
from state to state.
MS. CLINE said the laws varied quite considerably. She reported
that 25 states allowed for permitless concealed carry, while the
remaining states varied between "shall issue" and "may issue"
requirements.
CHAIR VANCE asked whether H.R. 38 would grant the federal
government authority over Alaska's Second Amendment rights.
MS. CLINE clarified that Alaska had the ability to create its
own concealed carry laws, adding that H.R. 38 would allow those
laws to be recognized when Alaskans traveled to or through other
states. She reiterated that the congressional bill would not
give the federal government any authority over Alaska's
concealed carry laws.
2:03:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN considered a scenario in which the State
of New York issued restrictions against obtaining a concealed
carry permit. He asked whether Alaska State Troopers would be
required to enforce those restrictions on a visitor from New
York.
2:04:51 PM
RYAN MCKEE, Staff, Representative George Rauscher, Alaska State
Legislature, on behalf of Representative Rauscher, prime sponsor
of HJR 3, confirmed that if an individual was not allowed to
obtain a legal license from his/her home state, that person
could not travel to Alaska and carry concealed.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether current law allowed a New
Yorker to travel to Alaska and carry concealed.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER read the following excerpt from the H.R.
38:
(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any
State or political subdivision thereof (except as
provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the
requirements of this section, a person who is not
prohibited by Federal law from possessing,
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is
carrying a valid identification document containing a
photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid
license or permit
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER emphasized that a valid license or
permit must be carried by the traveler.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN clarified that his question was about
current state law. He asked whether someone from New York could
travel to Alaska and carry concealed if H.R. 38 did not pass.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER deferred to Ms. Cline.
MS. CLINE said a person traveling to Alaska was subject to
Alaska's laws.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN asked whether constitutional [permitless]
carry only applied to Alaska residents.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER offered to follow up with the requested
information. He shared his understanding that it was legal for
an individual to travel to Alaska with his/her guns to hunt.
2:09:19 PM
CHAIR VANCE opened public testimony on HJR 3. After
ascertaining that no one in the room or online wished to
testify, she closed public testimony. She announced that HJR 3
would be held over.
2:10:42 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:10 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HJR 3 - Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HJUD 2/10/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |
| HJR 3 - v.A.PDF |
HJUD 2/10/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |
| HJR 3 - Need for Conceal and Carry Reciprocity.pdf |
HJUD 2/10/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |
| HJR 3 - 5 reasons to support National Reciprocity.pdf |
HJUD 2/10/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |
| HJR 3 - 117th Congress H.R. 38.pdf |
HJUD 2/10/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |